 |
|
Re: Come on!
posted by
Anonymous
@ 217.216.178.121
on Apr 30 2004 3:10 PM
|
|
Try to stick in a 1.4MB floppy a minimal boot system, nethack, an X server (or directbuffer, or whatever) with graphic drivers, the graphics for Xnethack and leave space for savegames.
Even small floppy distros like mu-linux needed back in the day (2000) a second floppy disk for the graphic version. And I want to start playing fast, not to wait for 2 floppies to load! :) |
| |
|
[Reply]
|
|
|
Minimal Linux kernel
posted by
Anonymous
@ 4.8.239.175
on Apr 30 2004 6:58 PM
|
|
A bootable Linux kernel needs no peripheral hardware support with exception to PS2 or USB Mouse and Keyboard. And let us dive back into Linux kernel version 2.0.x, monolithic, stripped down. We don't need IDE or SCSI support of any kind...just floppy support, aka the Basic ingredients. Now that should get the Linux kernel down to no more than 250 Kilobytes, and with a Framebuffer X Server such as KDRIVE, or perhaps even a minimal DirectFB with XDirectFB, that leaves plent of room for a cut-down X client stripped and compressed.
I hope I didn't sound too angry in my first post; it's painful to see many could-have-been-better Linux-based software appear simply because "it can." Although NetHack ever since its beginning was always a still-born product that never matured. It constantly receives updates and revisions and is pathetic in terms of ever becoming a complete product. If only a complete product ever existed in Linux, but with opensource it is always a modification that never ends... |
| |
|
[Reply]
|
|
|
Re: Minimal Linux kernel
posted by
Anonymous
@ 69.105.94.219
on Apr 30 2004 8:54 PM
|
|
Holy crap!
You didn't just claim that nethack was incomplete, did you?
... The deepest, most complex dungeon crawler ever, incomplete? The game that inspired Diablo, which is the checkers to nethack's chess? I hope you've got an asbestos suit on, troll. Your post is pure flamebait.
Honestly, what else does nethack need? Was Diablo far more incomplete, or do you endorse some kind of double standard to support your open source=incomplete statement?
My best guess is that you'd like shinier graphics, well tough. Use tiles, use Falcon's Eye, use noegnud. None of those are anything but unnecessary add-ons that do not make the game any more or less complete. Perhaps diablo is becoming more incomplete as its graphics become obsolete? You can't kill Diablo anymore because the graphics are too old to display him?
|
| |
|
[Reply]
|
|
|
Re: Minimal Linux kernel
posted by
Anonymous
@ 141.158.213.36
on Apr 30 2004 8:58 PM
|
|
| troll v.,n. 1. [From the Usenet group alt.folklore.urban] To utter a
posting on Usenet designed to attract predictable responses or
flames; or, the post itself. Derives from the phrase "trolling for
newbies" which in turn comes from mainstream "trolling", a style of
fishing in which one trails bait through a likely spot hoping for a
bite. The well-constructed troll is a post that induces lots of newbies
and flamers to make themselves look even more clueless than they already
do, while subtly conveying to the more savvy and experienced that it is
in fact a deliberate troll. If you don't fall for the joke, you get to
be in on it.
-- from the Jargon File |
| |
|
[Reply]
|
|
|
|
You know what...
posted by
Anonymous
@ 4.8.230.204
on May 2 2004 8:57 AM
|
|
The game that inspired Diablo
I'm such a renowned troll that I even stopped reading slashdot.org for the past 2 months just because I'm so successful. I make PhysicsGenius (a troll) look like a physics amateur; that I'm so successfull a troll. But trolling aside...I just read you claim Diablo was inspired by Nethack! Are you mad? That's like comparing horse-shit with man-shit! Diablo is the de-evolution of Nethack. And Nethack is the de-evolution of men and women actualy arming themselves in these modern days, perhaps equipped with well-excavated coconuts a-sounding their movement, and venturing deep into the labryths of their local county Recorder's archives in search of the Constitution for the united States of America or that constitution of one of the legendary several states of America. I can arm myself (a tourist) with a camera, voice recorder, little doggy, and search the corrupted public records; while everyone else sits on their fat ass playing with ASCII puppets on their computer's CRT.
Oh brother... |
| |
|
[Reply]
|
|
|
Re: You know what...
posted by
Anonymous
@ 71.32.86.234
on Mar 28 2007 4:47 PM
|
|
| Dear godlike troll,
I really liked your article and it was very funny. I would rather compare Diablo to Horse filth and Nethack to prime rib or linguini. I admit that I'm predjudiced. I think that Diablo gratuitous violence whereas nethack is only what you make of it (i.e. slain by a grid bug). Anyway, you are a great troll and especially so because you admit it |
| |
|
[Reply]
|
|
|
| |
|
Re: Minimal Linux kernel
posted by
grumbel
@ 80.144.87.152
on May 2 2004 11:50 AM
|
|
| ### Honestly, what else does nethack need?
Hm, let me think for half a second... how about a useable userinterface, a newbie friendly in-game tutorial, graphics that don't make my C64 look like a futuristic machine and stuff like that. There is a whole *LOT* that could be improved in nethack, yet, I havn't really seen any improvements at all in the last years, just sticking it onto a bootdisk or replacing ugly ascii art with ugly styles, while keeping the interface all the same doesn't really do any good.
|
| |
|
[Reply]
|
|
|
Re: Minimal Linux kernel
posted by
Anonymous
@ 69.105.94.219
on May 2 2004 2:11 PM
|
|
> How about a useable userinterface,
The interface is not going to get much better than it is. Nethack requires a lot of commands be available, and that complexity is the biggest reason newbies call the interface difficult. I agree that the menu systems in the tiled versions could be better, though.
> a newbie friendly in-game tutorial
Littlehack is a project is to build a sort of newbie-nethack for beginners to learn the game. Its development seems to have stalled in past months. You could try your hand at helping them out. :)
> graphics that don't make my C64 look like a futuristic machine.
Have you seen the Qt tiled version with a nice set (The default set's a bit cheesy) of tiles? It beats the pants off my old C64. Maybe yours was different. :'p
Then have a look at noeGNUd, ( http://www.linuxgames.co.za/noeGNUd/ ) which is a frontend for nethack, littlehack, and slashem. It features rotatable 3d views, lighting effects, and in the future will have 3d models. It's currently in the middle of a ground-up rewrite, but the last release is fully functional. (Sadly, my old radeon card's buggy drivers dislike the text display method, so I'm back in Qt tiles. )
Here: http://www.linuxgames.co.za/noeGNUd/screenshots/absurd.jpg
> There is a whole *LOT* that could be improved in nethack, yet, I havn't really seen any improvements at all in the last years, just sticking it onto a bootdisk or replacing ugly ascii art with ugly styles, while keeping the interface all the same doesn't really do any good.
Well, the guy putting nethack on the bootdisk has nothing at all to do with nethack's development. The recent nethack releases have been bugfix releases, so naturally there aren't many new features. Besides that, the nethack team generally will only incorporate completed windowing systems. Falcon's Eye is way too buggy and not well maintained (plus I hate what it does to the interface), and noeGNUd is considered unfinished by its developer.
|
| |
|
[Reply]
|
|
|
Re: Minimal Linux kernel
posted by
grumbel
@ 80.144.92.97
on May 3 2004 2:27 AM
|
|
| What nethack needs are not 3D graphics and lighting, which for sure will just end up replacing the ascii art by 1:1. What nethack needs is a complete rewrite of all this ascii display engine from the ground up. Walls should look like walls, uncondiscovered areas should look like that and not like holes in the ground, sprites shouldn't just 'jump' around on the map, but walk. I want to get feedback when I have been hit, if I starve to death I want to have visible feedback and not just some counter decreesing at the edge of the screen. Currently all nethack 'GUI's have ended up just replacing the ascii art with tiles, while neither fixing the non-existing transition from one tile to another nor fixing the major visiblitiy problems that nethack had. Most C64 games already have been FAR better at these issues. |
| |
|
[Reply]
|
|
|
Re: Minimal Linux kernel
posted by
Anonymous
@ 80.185.37.5
on May 3 2004 3:50 AM
|
|
| Hm. "The foo hits!" isn't enough of a visual feedback? Strange... If you starve, you get a very clear warning. Come on, all those "arguments" can be answered without any efforts. In fact: you are just flaming for the sake of flaming. Go elswere. |
| |
|
[Reply]
|
|
|
Re: Minimal Linux kernel
posted by
grumbel
@ 80.144.92.97
on May 3 2004 4:10 AM
|
|
| ### Hm. "The foo hits!" isn't enough of a visual feedback?
Since when is this visible feedback? That is *TEXT*, which is even quite far away from where the hit occurred. I want to see the foo hit me, I want to see my player react to the hit, I want to see him having throuble when energy is low and stuff like that. Reading the text that a foo just hit me is exactly the reason why nethack is completly unusable for newbies and why the interface in general is pretty much the ugliest thing I have ever seen.
|
| |
|
[Reply]
|
|
|
Re: Minimal Linux kernel
posted by
Anonymous
@ 66.219.42.66
on May 19 2004 1:26 PM
|
|
| Damn, I'll bet you hate pencil-and-paper RPGs. Imagine -- playing a game without any graphics at all! No fancy pictoral representation of what's going on beyond the one inside your head! *shudder*.
Here's a hint: It's about the game itself, not about whatever pretty effects symbolize what's happening inside it. If I know that I'm starving, having a counter versus a fully animated picture of myself heaving is just window dressing, and I don't give a damn about the window dressing -- I care about the game. |
| |
|
[Reply]
|
|
|
Re: Minimal Linux kernel
posted by
grumbel
@ 212.204.23.165
on May 22 2004 10:02 AM
|
|
| ### having a counter versus a fully animated picture of myself heaving is just window dressing,
You don't get it, its NOT about just window dressing, its about providing the informations of the game to the player in a way that they are hard to miss, currently the information are VERY easy to miss. Its worth nothing that I am 'starving' if the game itself fails to provide this information to the player, one just end up starving to death and the game ending without the player having any idea what is going no. And a counter in some corner of the screen is very easy to miss, if you player character instead tumbles around in the game however its pretty much impossible to miss. And no, no super hires graphics are needed, just some iconic stuff that provides the player with the necessary information. |
| |
|
[Reply]
|
| |
|
Re: Minimal Linux kernel
posted by
Anonymous
@ 24.87.69.52
on May 22 2004 11:02 AM
|
|
| Yeah, text sucks. In fact, books suck too! |
| |
|
[Reply]
|
|
|
Re: Minimal Linux kernel
posted by
grumbel
@ 212.204.23.165
on May 22 2004 12:24 PM
|
|
| The problem is that Nethack doesn't use all that much text really (no long storyline or dialogs to see anywhere), but instead it uses text-characters to simulate graphics, aka ASCII-art. Nobody would bitch about nethack if it would be a text adventure, but it isn't. It uses graphics and does that in pretty much the worst way possible and none of the nethack clients really fixed that, they just replaced ASCII characters by tiles, but neither fixing the limitness of the character display (very limited movement) nor the problem of providing the informations in a usefull way.
|
| |
|
[Reply]
|
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
|
Re: Minimal Linux kernel
posted by
Anonymous
@ 130.13.179.5
on Mar 12 2006 11:51 AM
|
|
Nethack is such a complicated game that makes perfect sense to have an "un-useable" user interface.
Believe me, there are too many controls to fit onto a keyboard: drinking potions, wielding weapons, eating food, reading scrolls, throwing stuff, inventory, opening doors, paying bills, applying tools, searching, dropping items, firing a ranged weapon, listing what is on the ground, zapping wands, exchanging weapons, closing doors, picking up items, resting, and about 3 times more than already listed.
Also, with practice, the controls will become natural to you. I have been nethacking for about 6 months now, and the controls have become just like swimmimg. |
| |
|
[Reply]
|
| |
| |
|
Re: Minimal Linux kernel
posted by
w00t
@ 212.78.153.223
on May 1 2004 4:38 PM
|
|
| stripping all the trolling... it could be a fun project to try to fit that into a floppy |
| |
|
[Reply]
|
|
|
Re: Minimal Linux kernel
posted by
Anonymous
@ 128.252.25.102
on May 8 2004 10:11 AM
|
|
| you people have no vision.
I know I'll never be able to convince you that ASCII art is better than your silly D3D or OGL graphics, you're too busy suckling at ATI's breasts to try broadening your horizons a bit. anyway, I guess we'd all agree that a nice visual interface is "better" (more difficult to program maybe? more "technologically advanced" perhaps??) than simple ASCII...but what you technolosers don't seem to understand is that the ASCII interface is brilliant for NetHack, and is where a lot of the magic comes from. I'm guessing the people who can't appreciate this game for it's INCREDIBLY ENGROSSING gameplay are the same ones who don't like to read (incredibly engrossing) books because they can't see what's going on? (boo hoo) After all, a book's ASCII interface is much less appealing than a flashy, mesmerizing movie or video game, right?? lol you people disgust me. go get an imagination. |
| |
|
[Reply]
|
|
|
Re: Minimal Linux kernel
posted by
blindcoder
@ 80.128.30.151
on May 10 2004 10:11 PM
|
|
Ok, at first I didn't want to participate in this thread, but now I guess I have no choice:
Never underestimate the power of imagination:
You look left and right down the corridor, feeling very nervous.--More--
You realize you are staring at your E-Mail Address.
Try that with D3D/OGL :-) |
| |
|
[Reply]
|
|
Re: Minimal Linux kernel
posted by
w00t
@ 62.57.118.179
on May 19 2004 7:59 PM
|
|
Ok, to the troll that replied me first:
Did I ever said that a graphical interface was better than the ascii one?
You obviously have no reading skills, ergo the best use you have for a book is leveling a table.
I just said it would be a fun project to pack in a floppy: a linux kernel, an X server, nethack, and a tileset.
Now go back to the GNAA HQ
|
| |
|
[Reply]
|
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
Nethack Live System
